ABOUT

Larry Baird is a traditional Nuu-chah-nulth chief on Vancouver Island, British Columbia and a leader of IISAAK (the word means "respect" in Nuu-chah-nulth), a First Nations company managing FSC certified land on Clayoquot Sound, BC. Baird has been a logger for more than 35 years.

INTERVIEW

"As a founding member of Iisaak I was involved in the negotiations with MacMillan Bloedel."

I am a logger by trade. I have 35 years in the industry. I was a chief counselor for the Ucluelet tribe and part of the Interim Measures Agreement (IMA) negotiations through which Iisaak was created. As a founding member of Iisaak I was involved in the negotiations with MacMillan Bloedel. It was a condition of the IMA that we have a joint venture. We kind of fell into it, but we embraced it.

[Editor's note: The IMA was an agreement between the provincial government and the five First Nations of the Nuu-chah-nulth Central Region in British Columbia. The IMA acknowledged that the Ha'wiih (Hereditary Chiefs) of the First Nations have the responsibility to conserve and protect their traditional territories and waters for future generations and granted joint management of the Nuu-chah-nulth traditional territory's lands and resources to the five Central Region First Nations. In 1996 an extension of the IMA committed MacMillan Bloedel, a timber company, and the First Nations in Clayoquot Sound to begin negotiations to form a joint venture. In 1998 the First Nations and MacMillan Bloedel signed a shareholders agreement detailing their partnership in a new company named Iisaak Forest Resources, Ltd. Iisaak means "respect" in the Nuu-chah-nulth language.]

"We are the landlords here."

We are Nuu-chah-nulth. There are fourteen tribes in the West Coast region, five of which are here in the Central region: Hesuqiaht, Tla-o-qui-aht, Ucluelet, Ahousat, and Toquaht. We comprise about fifty-six percent of the tribal council. We have the most members of all the nations. We probably have the most clout. We are the smartest guys (chuckles), and the toughest negotiators. We have a history, by recorded history's standards, of six thousand years occupancy. Our rent is not due; we are the landlords here.

"We have always used the forest."

We have always used the forest. To us, the forest is a working forest. It is not supposed to be set aside for parks or anything like that--you just go in and use it. We built canoes for transportation. We made houses. But we did not chop trees down; we just took planks out of trees.

The only time a tree would come down was when we needed a canoe for transportation, and even then there was a lot of ceremony attached to taking that tree. We used cedar bark for capes, baskets, hats. Many, many things came from the forest. For us, it was total utilization: the berries, the deer, the animals, and everything else.

"Hishuk-ish ts-awalk" means everything is one; you cannot take without doing damage to something else. You have to work continuously to find balance and to keep that balance. As First Nations, we have our own sets of principles and protocols that guide us: Everything is one. You do not take too much of one thing or the other.

"You could stretch the rules any way you wanted-log, burn and pave."

Around the province the rulebook was made out of rubber and you could stretch the rules any way you wanted-log, burn and pave. Had we continued to log the way we were logging fifteen years ago, there would be nothing left, because the technology was getting bigger and faster and more powerful. There were grapplers that could haul 700 -1200 logs a day, which far surpassed what could be done with a steel spar.

There would be six guys working on a steel spar, where maybe on a good day if you really worked, you might get 500 logs, but you might only do that for one or two days, and then you would be pretty well tuckered out. But with the big iron choker you never got tired, all you had to do was open up the throttle a little more. With that type of logging, you tear up the terrain and rip open the soil, which contributes to the brown water, the run off, and kills the fish and everything else. If we had continued that way, there would be nothing left, and no work.

"How dare the protestors throw me out of a job, which was an honorable job."

At the time, I thought how dare the protestors throw me out of a job, which was an honorable job. But our actions were not always honorable. I used to run a timber totter, which is a big four wheeled machine with huge wheels on it. We would work all day and then, at the end of the day, to wash off our machines, we would drive those suckers into the creek. Well, was that good then? Is it good today? No. The First Nations vision is similar to the environmentalists, but some of us had lost track of it along the way.

Now we are back on track and we are creating something that we want to leave behind for our children. Iisaak is a natural fit for First Nations. We have really good innovative thinkers who can see past the bottom line. The bottom line is still there--it will never go away--but we have to do things differently.

"The public has got to help us."

There is a huge education process that must take place not only for the people who buy our product, but for everyone in the board rooms, if they want us to continue the way we are doing things.

The consumer has to understand that for us to maintain the forests for recreation, it costs a lot of money to go out there and keep the forest relatively pristine. It takes a different type of logging, such as helicopters, which do not come cheap.

Everybody wants us to do this and do that, and do everything else, but they do not want to pay for the certified product that has to come from a certified forest and a certified operation. That is one of the hurdles. The public has got to help us.

"Iisaak has been up and running for the last five years."

This all started in 1992 with the government's proposed land-use decision. The First Nations had not been part of the planning process, so we told the government, 'If you make the decision at Clayoquot Sound, you are doing it at your and your government's peril.'

In 1993, we entered into negotiations that led to the Interim Measures Agreement (IMA). We had a cooperative forest clause in the second agreement, but nothing came out of that. It was the latest agreement, the IMEA Schedule II, that had a clause in it about creating a joint venture, and that was the beginning of the joint venture with MacMillan Bloedel.

It took year of negotiating with MacMillan Bloedel to transfer tenure. We were all basically stumbling around in the darkness wondering what we were creating and what it would look like. But here we are today, Iisaak has been up and running for the last five years.

"If any wood was going to leave Clayoquot Sound, it would only leave with the blessing of the First Nations."

What I said to the chiefs who entrusted me to negotiate these agreements was, 'Look, we've got 87,000 hectares that could be forever ours so long as we look after it.' We had to think strategically about how to get our land back.

The leadership came up with the strategy that if any wood was going to leave Clayoquot Sound, it would only leave with the blessing of the First Nations. Otherwise, there would be absolutely no wood coming out of Clayoquot Sound. And that was it: MacMillan Bloedel opted to give us the lead in the operations and the fifty-one percent. They knew that as long as we were owners, wood would move out of here.

"Corporations want to make their money today. First Nations' view of this new economy is that we have been here, we have no place else to go, so we think longer term."

We had a hard time negotiating the recommendations for how much cedar was going to be left and how much cedar was going to be passed on to future generations. We still have canoe makers and totem makers who need the big cedars, which today is fetching top dollar. It is about finding a balance. We look at the forest and say, 'There is a damn fine canoe,' where someone from the corporate world would say, 'That sucker is worth 5,000 bucks."

Corporations want to make their money today. First Nations' view of this new economy is that we have been here, we have no place else to go, so we think longer term. Anyway, second growth cedars do not build very good canoes (laughs).

The corporate world has some of the things that we do not have. They have marketing throughout the world that could help us in terms of FSC and those types of products. But they need to come and ask us, not tell us, how they can help us.

There are some environmentalists who do not want any old growth logging. But they have come to respect our operation because we are First Nations and we have majority rule on the board. It is about developing trust.

"We have had to become businessmen."

One of the things we have talked about is a First Nation certification because of how we look at the forest and all the values. We are continually looking at what is going to be most practical for us. There is still a bottom line for Iisaak. We do not have to make huge profits but at least break even, paying our bills and keeping employment. We have had to become businessmen.

In terms of how we are going to become successful, First Nation certification is a good option. It is something that we need to look at a lot more closely. Would a First Nation's product get more money, or FSC, or a blend? It is still about logging old growth, and some of the finest in the world comes from here.

"If you pay us more money, we can log less."

The protests were about saving all of the forest. But you cannot save all of it because, from a First Nation's perspective, we enjoy a working forest. So how are we going to make this work? If you pay us more money, we can log less. But until we get to that stage, FSC is there. A more appropriate scheme would be an aboriginal or indigenous certification.

Iisaak and the FSC certification set the bar very, very high. There are some who wish Iisaak would go away, but we are here to stay. I am not from Scotland, I am from here and I am not going anywhere and neither are the other First Nations of the region. If the bar has been set a little high then you better get into shape to jump over the bar because that is the way of the future.

"What used to be plentiful in the forest is now very precious."

We had to come to realize that what used to be plentiful in the forest is now very precious. So we need to retain a large portion of what is here, and certification is one way to do that. I see it as nothing but good for the whole industry. It is about time the industry changed. And if the bar has been set a little high, well, meet it or beat it.